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2 hours ago
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I had done ex150vinegar before, and had lost 4-6lbs and noticed drastically reduced appetite. But I called it “nothing crazy” at the time.
This time was crazy.
I’m down roughly 10lbs from the lowest weight of the last experience to the lowest on this one. That’s the fastest weight loss I’ve seen since.. I think since the 2nd or 3rd month of doing ex150, when I was still 260-280lbs This might be in the top 5 of my most rapid fat loss months ever. And I started it at 226lbs, not at 290!
I (briefly) reached a new modern low of 216.7lbs, breaking (a little bit) through my previous plateau of 217lbs, which I hadn’t been able to break through since April 2024.
The most dramatic difference was an incredible reduction in appetite. As always, this experiment was ad-lib, meaning I was eating as much cream as I wanted to.
It’s just that I wanted significantly less cream, and I often got cement-truck satiety after half my usual portion, or even less.
I actually started ordering medium (!) Heavy Whipping Cream lattes at Starbucks instead of large. I don’t think I have EVER ordered a medium coffee before in my life.
But even those would give me cement-truck satiety halfway through.
In short, I wanted to combine the vinegar theory with the polyol pathway theory I recently discovered.
To briefly recap:
Vinegar theory posits that acetic acid in vinegar can help rejuvenate senescent (broken) fat cells and help them correctly react to the body’s signals.
Hence, I was taking 3 capsules (=1 serving = 750mg acetic acid) of Bragg’s Apple Cider Vinegar capsules each morning. That’s a relatively modest dose compared to the insane amounts of vinegar I consumed during the vinegar trial. 750mg acetic acid is about what you’d get from one tablespoon (15ml) of vinegar.
Polyol pathway theory says that high salt or umami (glutamate) intake can cause the body to endogenously create fructose from glucose, which can have certain detrimental effects (in some people) and prevent fat loss.
Hence, I cut out all sauce from my lunch meals. Previously, I was alternating marinara and alfredo sauce, which are both high in sodium. The marinara is also high in umami/glutamate.
(By the way, the sauces I was using were free of seed oils and even olive oil, which is often adulterated. The marinara from Whole Foods is fat free, and Rao’s Alfredo uses cream.)
And boy, did this work.
“Duh, of course!” replies the skeptic, “You cut out the sauce! Sauce is delicious, and cutting it out would obviously make you eat less!”
But aha! The experimental design explicitly disproves this as causal. How?
The sauce was previously only added to my single lunch meal, which is fixed in terms of size and carolies.
I was (obviously) not eating heavy cream with tomato sauce, and therefore the sauce was never part of an ad-lib meal before.
And so the sauce wasn’t removed from any ad-lib food in this experiment.
Here’s a visualization of my typical eating times:
Coffee cups not to scale; I just mean that I drink ad-lib creamy coffee from wakeup until 3pm, breaking it up with lunch. Then nothing from roughly 3pm until dinner, when I have whipped cream.
Still, cutting sauce from my fixed lunch meal (and taking ACV capsules) drastically reduced my appetite for cream hours later, and even the next morning.
If tomato sauce at lunch makes whipped cream at dinner more palatable, that’s some quantum entanglement stuff if I’ve ever seen it.
I therefore conclude that this is a metabolic effect, not simply one of “sauce makes food more palatable.”
Ever since I did a few 48h dry fasts a while ago, I have tended to drink a bit less on the margin. I realized I felt fine not drinking very much, and I was thinking that drinking a little less, or “intermittent dry fasting” if you will, might help accelerate fat loss.
According to polyol pathway theory, though, the signal (you want to avoid) is actually not caused by total salt intake, but by salt concentration in the blood. That means you can lower it by drinking water when you consume salt.
In that spirit I decided to marginally overdrink instead of underdrink. I didn’t chug a ton of water, but when in doubt I’d drink some water, whereas previously I would not.
I also tried limiting my soda/energy drink intake to 2-3 a day, and I switched away from Monster Energy Zero because they have incredibly high amounts of sodium (380mg/can). Some other brands and most sodas only have 70-100mg, and Ghost energy drinks only have about 30mg.
I therefore mostly switched to Ghost when available, or just diet sodas like Dr Pepper Zero or Mountain Dew Zero. (I much prefer the Zero soda taste over both “diet” sodas and regular HFCS or sugar sodas. Yes, even Mexican Coke or Red Bull.)
For context, I’m including the second half of the last experiment, ex150-15. It got me down to about 226lbs.
I followed that experiment with a 3 day refeed mostly consisting of a giant stew of beans, rice & vegetables. Also some shortbread, a bit of chocolate and some other things. By day 3 I was really tired of the refeed and threw the rest of the stew out, excited to go back on an ex150 style diet.
That refeed made my weight jump up to 238lbs (+12lbs) in the 3 days.
The water weight came down almost immediately, and I was below the previous low of 226lbs on day 4 of ex150nosauce+ACV.
Then, the weight loss continued rapidly. After the water loss, I lost nearly a pound a day for a week straight. There’s a bit of a slowdown later, but I broke through my old plateau of 217.2lbs only 3 days before the end, hitting 216.7lbs.
The weight gain on the next day is probably because I actually cheated on that same day, eating a lot of brisket for lunch.
Overall, the weight loss was very linear for the whole month after the initial water weight loss. That seems to indicate this isn’t just a shift in water weight/salt balance, but actual fat loss.
Going from 226lbs to 216lbs is a 4% reduction in total weight.. in a single month.
As a reminder, a 15% reduction in 72 weeks is considered a “huge success” for GLP-1 drugs, and even 5% in 72 weeks is considered a success. I just lost 4% in 4 weeks, and 226lbs is actually the border of obesity for me. I.e. I lost this weight from just barely being obese, not from morbidly obese.
Overall, it was just mostly ex150. The lunch meal is definitely less delicious without the sauce. The marinara sauce especially would normally give me an incredible “hit” (dopamine?), almost like crack. Maybe that’s a sign.
Without any sauce, the meal tastes a lot more buttery, but still pretty good. I’d give it a 8/10 instead of the 10/10 that it is with sauce added.
Quite sustainable, and only a handful of times did I ever even think about the sauce.
As mentioned before, my appetite was drastically reduced. I think I only finished my usual whipped cream dinner portion once. Several times I couldn’t even finish it over 2 days, and had to stretch it to a 3rd day.
I also drank dramatically less coffee. On ex150, much of my ad-lib cream intake is added to coffee. I’ve been known to drink 10+ coffees with cream a day. This time, I could barely do 4. Some days I only did 1-2.
Heavy whipping cream lattes from Starbucks would almost knock me out, and I would finish half and then let the rest sit for 2-3h, even on a long drive. There were a couple of hilarious moments in the car where I looked down and reached for the coffee, and part of my brain made me instinctively pull back. Almost like a flinch.
In general, I think I experienced something akin to food anhedonia. Food of any kind, be it my lunch or heavy cream, or coffee, just didn’t excite me as much any more. I think it’d be wrong to say that they “tasted worse,” they tasted just the same. But the same tastes and flavors just didn’t give me as much of a “hit” any more.
I keep saying “hit” because I don’t know if it’s dopamine or something else, but something in the emotional reward system just seemed.. turned down. Interestingly, this also happened when I first went on keto a decade ago. Before keto, nearly all food I ate would be like crack. Some call this food addiction or food noise, but I don’t like those terms.
But call it addiction or noise or something else, lots of foods would give me incredible emotional highs, and none would give me any satiety at all. Keto made this much better, but later I figured out ways to still get huge “hits” on keto: high-protein foods like meat, cheeses, and lots of added tomato sauce. Dark chocolate.
On ex150 my food choice is obviously extremely reduced, and I’d mostly get “highs” from creamy coffee and my saucey slop lunch.
Without the sauce, and with addition of the ACV, not only was the “high” of the sans-sauce-lunch reduced, but also the coffee and the whipped cream.
Incredibly, even diet sodas and energy drinks didn’t feel as rewarding. I’d still have some, but not nearly as many, and they weren’t nearly as exciting.
I found myself taking 1-2h to drink a single diet soda - pretty unheard of before. On a few occasions, I noticed that the diet sodas tasted quite salty. I didn’t get this consistently though, so I’m not sure.
As usual, I took copious notes. There are a lot of notes because this experiment was so wild, so I’ll condense them thematically.
Cravings
Lunch much more plain tasting w/o sauce, but still good
MAN do I miss the sauce. Uncanny. Probably a sign.
Got sudden “Uhh I should buy salsa & tomato sauce & jalapenos” thoughts when at the store, cravings!
Anhedonia
I think without the sauce I am .. drinking less coffee? I just sort of don’t crave it much
Sitting next to creamy coffee for 30 min at a time, forgetting to drink it
Just a strong disinterest in coffee & cream, it seems
Ok only had 3-4 coffees today, not even with that much cream, and for dinner the first time this experiment I was actually quite hungry
One thing that’s super different, I’m drinking creamy beverages super slowly. Usually I just inhale coffee & tea with cream. Now, I forgot the cup is sitting right next to me. This seems like a sign of disinterest in more carolies aka satiety.
Food anhedonia (?), the opposite of food noise
Never been so uninterested in food
Satiety in Overdrive
Wooo cement truck satiety hits hard. Forgot it after only 3 days of starch refeed lol
I swear to God I am eating/drinking way less cream. Had cement truck satiety almost immediately upon eating whipped cream.
Finished my whipped cream dinner for the first time this experiment I think, although it took a really long time
Seem to drink about 4 coffees a day, and eat typically half my cup of whipped cream at night, maybe a bit more than half on average
Lol, after only 4 coffees and 2 teas (even less cream than a coffee!), I made whipped cream for dinner and managed to eat... a whopping 3 spoons before my brain went “ugh!” and I put it back into the fridge
Only started eating whipped cream dinner around 10:30pm, and again didn’t finish yesterday’s portion, so keeping it for a 3rd day
Measured my cream intake today. Trying to force myself to finish the whipped cream so I’ll get to 500ml but it’s already past 2am and I just can’t will it down lol. Cement truck satiety too strong.
Only managed 414g of cream, which puts me at under 1,950kcal despite literally trying to force feed myself
Just to try hitting the limit again and undereating, tried drinking a ton of coffees with cream. After 2 had pretty strong satiety (but not “cement-truck” as I rarely get that with liquid cream), forced down 2 more for a total of 4, was pretty nauseated tbh
Usually I drink TEN of these a day intuitively!
Had about 6 coffees and 2 teas today; it’s 9:30pm and the mere thought of making dinner cream is nauseating
Ended up making dinner whipped cream after midnight lol.. and managed maybe 5 spoons before giving up
Ordered HWC latte, “f u satiety” after a few sips
Over the course of an hour forced it down, got mildly nauseated for 2h after
Not even a big Starbucks sized cup, just from a local coffee joint
8pm: Still “hung over” from that HWC latte, the thought of finishing the whipped cream I have in the fridge from yesterday is literally nauseating
Ended up not touching yesterday’s leftover whipped cream at all
Only 2 coffees today that has to be a new record
Repeat of the HWC latte phenomenon, couldn’t even finish half (of a medium sized one, not large size!) within several hours
More Starbucks HWC satiety, after half had to stop and finished it 2h later
Random
Wow, Monsters have 380mg sodium, diet soda has ~100mg
My sodium intake even on a “no salt added ever” diet probably fluctuated like crazy
Morning of day 5 and I am below last month’s lowest weight (by .2lb)
Is it just the ACV kicking in?
Feeling really hot & sweaty after lunch & a coffee, even though it’s only 70°F and so not objectively hotter
Feels like fasting lol, almost a pound down every day
Reverse feeling of “stuffed but ravenous” - my stomach is feeling empty and growling, but I don’t want to eat despite literally having food next to me
Feels like my brain/energy sensor thinks “we’re good” but my stomach is expecting something
Ketones 5.6mmol/L, glucose 86mg/dL in the evening
Cheating
Cheated by eating quite a bit brisket for lunch
Cheating & refeeds are less and less satisfying over time. The brisket wasn’t bad, but I basically didn’t get any “hit” from it like I used to. Think over time as ECS and maybe other systems normalize food becomes less and less drug/entertainment and more just fuel
Didn’t make dinner cream to make up for brisket cheat meal
Refeed
Hated the refeed, only did 1 day
Ate a bunch of cheese, chocolate, some butter cookies, beef jerky. By the time dinner rolled around and I made beans & rice, I was already sort of over the refeed and just going through the motions. Didn’t finish the beans & rice, didn’t finish the chocolate, didn’t finish the beef jerky. Threw much of it away.
What caused this experiment to work so exceptionally well?
ex150vinegar worked pretty well, but it wasn’t exceptional. Losing 4-6lbs after going from a high-carb diet to ex150 is just sort of what always happens. I also wasn’t near my previous Magic Number Plateau of 217lbs, and it had always been relatively easy to get back to that.
But this time the weight loss stayed pretty linear all the way to the end, even slightly breaking through the 217 plateau, indicating something was different.
Was it the lack of sauce?
Was it the ACV kicking in?
Was it the combination?
Did the recent ex_plainrice experiment lower my adipose linoleic acid enough to enable a new low, breaking the old plateau?
Ketone levels were quite high (5mmol/L or above), similar to fasting levels. Not sure if this is a cause or symptom.
Well, the linoleic acid level was easy to check: despite sort of vowing to do less OmegaQuant Completes (OQC) in the future, I ended up doing another one:
It came in at 16.2%, so low LA% doesn’t seem to be “it”.. although it’s down .4% from last month. But certainly not the lowest result I’ve had, even if we don’t count very-low-fat diets, which tend to push it down even more. Previous high-fat results had me at just over 15% on high-fat diets.
On the other hand, the causality might be the opposite: maybe nosauce+ACV caused the weight loss, and the linoleic acid released from my body fat got incorporated into my cells, driving up the OQC?
In any case, LA levels are not a clear-cut signal here.
So I’m not sure what caused it, but the combination of ex150 + ACV + nosauce seems quite potent. I suppose I found 2 more buttons to push.
As we say in software.. never touch a running system. So obviously I’m just doing this exact experiment one more time.
The combination of nosauce + ACV somehow seems incredibly powerful. I couldn’t tell you if it’s the reduced sodium, glutamate/umami, or whatever else it might be about the sauce.
But if you’re currently using a lot of sodium, or sauce, I would suggest you give nosauce+ACV a try.
